DC Cookie

Tuesday, December 06, 2005

White Girls Are Easy

When I read Namaste's post called Gorillas in the Mist, I laughed my damn ass off for about 10 minutes. Not for nothing, the girl has spunk. Who else would think to ward off an aggressive and inappropriate sexual harasser by making monkey noises? Genius!

But the post generated some less-than-favourable responses from two of my African-American male friends who found her verbage offensive. And initially, I thought, rightfully so. But then I thought further. The paragraph begins, "So, I walked out to the car. On my way, I passed a mid-20's, African-American fellow, who, as many African-American gentlemen of our generation do, felt the need to make a comment on my body..." A statement which begs the question - is she egregiously stereotyping or making a simple statement based on fact? Fact, if you're familiar with legalease, is not necessarily the absolute truth, but ones own convincing interpretation of the truth based on experience and research.

Stereotyping, in its common form, can never be a positive thing. But the evil root underlying this borderline version of racism (or sexism, or ageism, etc.) is presumption, not fact. If you make an assumption about a person prior to your actual encounter, then what you are doing is stereotyping. If you make a judgment about someone subsequent to your actual encounter, and subsequent to collecting adequate information about that person, I would argue that is not a stereotype; so long as that acquired knowledge does not result in future presumptions.

::Gavel bangs::

Let's flip the script for a minute. Here are two different statements which could be construed as stereotypical, both of which I have heard and both of which have struck a nerve. But I'd argue that one potentially has merit based in 'fact,' while the other is unforgivably ignorant.
  1. "I've met six white women in the last month and they've all offered to sleep with me on the first date. It seems to me that many white women are easy."
  2. "You're a white girl, you must be easy."

Should I be offended by both statements? Probably. But, in my strong opinion, there is a huge difference in the WAY I should be offended. With statement 1, the speaker is basing his opinion on concrete evidence from his own personal experience. Unforunate, annoying, frustrating, exasperating, causation for debate...? Yes. In essence, the speaker has presented me with the fact that there are 6 white girls out there making it that much harder for me to break through the boundaries of the stereotypes that suppress my demographic. The person isn't saying to me that I'm a ho, he's saying that he has encountered 6 other women with my similar physical characteristics who are. So is it the speaker I'm really annoyed by, or the girls about whom he's speaking? With statement 2, on the other hand, the speaker deserves to get ditched immediately and stuck with the bill.

Even with the best of intentions, when in doubt, consider your audience. One person's 'fact' is someone else's statistical outlier. Also remember, even with the 'best' of proof, there are always exceptions to the rule.

  • Girls are bad drivers: Danica Patrick
  • Chinese men are short: Yao Ming
  • Black men have bigger schlongs than white men: Ron Jeremy
  • White men can't jump: The Playaz
  • People with big noses are Jewish: DC Cookie

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

34 Comments:

  • At December 07, 2005 12:44 AM, Blogger Siryn said…

    Stereotyping is the only way our feeble minds can parse large amounts of data. Saves time. Unfortunately, we do it all the time. It takes a lot of conscious thought to see the stereotype and then take a risk to make an exception and give a person a chance to prove his or herself as an individual.

     
  • At December 07, 2005 1:16 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Lmao!!! First time reading your blog cookie. I'm Blatino!! Just think that its sad people will always categorize other earthlings. What she said are hints to how she feels about AA in general and how she views them. Silly beliefs are what disqualify people from jobs, loans, housing, etc.... But her comments are more arrogant in the fact that two young AA's wanted to approach. They were obviousily attracted to her so why not just leave it at that and think of it as a compliment instead of writing for the public view that these two AA's were wondering sex machings searching for mindless lust. She should be happy with that because those AA's could walk right past her ass and ignore her because they find her unattractive.

    But thats my mindless ramble and i'm sticking with it. Keep up the good work and to help end mindless stereotypes I'll say this---- DC Cookie I find you attractive and would be very interested in taking you out on a date to get to know you sometime if you felt comfortable. I'm 30, college educated, AA-PR and searching for a interesting lady. If your not interested I understand. But best of luck either way and have a great day.

     
  • At December 07, 2005 1:48 AM, Blogger Kurt said…

    Like siryn said, our minds default to heuristics we develop based on very limited numbers of observations. It generally only takes getting burnt by a hot stove once to decide in your mind not to touch stoves again, even though the majority of times you will encounter a stove, they will be turned off. Crazy, huh?

    As for the two examples, the problem with first is the classic correlation equals causation fallacy. While I'll give his statement isn't blatantly this, it is very close to "Women who are white are easy," that a woman being white causes her to be easy... and that is just silly.

    This is just one of the many struggles of humanity, to be human, and fight against the animalistic nature to live by such flawed behaviors.

     
  • At December 07, 2005 2:18 AM, Blogger Asian Mistress said…

    Asian girls are good at math.

    Oh, wait...




    In all seriousness...everyone sterotypes one way or another as siryn said...I think it's just a matter of how you handle it and how it affects how you act towards people. Are you treating people as...well, humans? Or as black, white, asian, Canadian, whatever...

    :)

     
  • At December 07, 2005 4:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I missed the original Namaste post, but I read it and was a bit surprised. This guy had to be very aggressive to be doing this in the parking lot where plenty of cops hang out, right? That right there spells trouble in anyone's book. In my neck of the woods in Ga., a woman searching her glove box for something is not anyone you want to approach from behind harassing or threatening. Not in the slightest. Too many times, that little tiny soccer mom driving that big SUV or that clapped out Chevy truck is packing heat, and she's usually not too averse to using it too!

    I've really got 0 tolerance for this type of BS, from anyone of any color, race, creed or religion. This has much less to do with stereotyping, and more to do with simple public safety. If this guy was willing to do this in the parking lot of the DMV, he's probably going to be a danger to others as well. Me, I would have sicked the cops on him for certain. And from the sounds of it, I'm betting the guy had some outstanding warrants he did not want revealed, so that's why he disappeared fast. And yes, I would have said this of any white redneck exhibiting the same behavior. So read the original post to see the background & context.

    I'm wondering if the Gorillas will work as well next time. Cheers & Good Luck, 'VJ'

     
  • At December 07, 2005 6:57 AM, Blogger JordanBaker said…

    That's the nice thing about being Italian-French-German-Scots-Irish-Dutch-English-Native-American. . . there's just me and my sister, so most of the stereotypes about us (IFGSIDENA girls are smart/drunk/ racktacular) are generally true. . .

    This was an awesome post, which deserves more gravity than I can give it before I finish my coffee. I'll be back this afternoon.

     
  • At December 07, 2005 9:14 AM, Blogger ryguy9296 said…

    Cookie, babe, I think you hit the nail on the head. It's not so much that we're offended by someone else's stereotype, it's that maybe when the stereotype hits close to home it makes us squirm and we hope people don't see us like that. Despite your friend's experience, you are not a ho. Despite Namaste's experience, all black men do not wear "Thug" sweatshirts or make outrageous comments to any woman they meet. But it still bugs us when people who are nominally like us behave in a way that makes us look bad.

    In my opinion, those criticizing Namaste have two problems: 1) Man up and admit when a dude is wrong. 2) Don't miss the forest for the trees. Namaste, not the ignorant "Thug" (and certainly not her critics), was the wronged party in that encounter.

    Oh and, uh...you're really cute and sexy and all that crap. Here are my details: I'm HA (Halfrican American), WS (Wicked Smaht) and SH (Supah Hawt) so here's my phone number if you want to hook up for a drink some time: 2-4-9...4-9-Nevah-Mind! ;-)

     
  • At December 07, 2005 10:24 AM, Blogger Jinxy said…

    Ron Jeremy's black and you're Jewish?

     
  • At December 07, 2005 10:27 AM, Blogger Heather B. said…

    1) I almost cried yesterday when I couldn't access your blog.

    2) Black women are bitches and that's why they are most likely to never get married.
    I can't tell you the number of times I've heard and/or read this. I'm not a bitch, but I still may never marry, so I guess that makes that stereotype half true; at least for me.

    It's a stereotype and as long as one doesn't look too deeply into it, it's not that big of a deal. I don't walk around hoping that people don't think I'm a bitch, really I don't care. And if you want to know whether or not the stereotype is true, you'll find out eventually.

    Now that I re-read that it looks like rambling mess, but you get it right?

     
  • At December 07, 2005 11:05 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Eff it, I’m going George Carlin on this one.

    White people can’t dance or jump.
    Black people are criminals.
    Asian people can’t drive.
    Puerto Ricans steal bikes.
    Indian people smell like curry.
    Mexicans only eat tacos.
    Italians are all in the mafia.
    Jewish people are cheap.
    Women are crazy and emotional.
    Men are dogs.
    People are people…now that I’ve offended everyone let’s all just get over it together.

    Feel free to add to my list o’ stereotypes…lol

     
  • At December 07, 2005 11:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Tall People are tall
    Short people are short
    Fat people are fat
    skinny people are skinny
    I can't think of anymore stereotypes!!!

    -

     
  • At December 07, 2005 11:09 AM, Blogger Stef said…

    Great post. I just read Namaste's story and while I do think her choice of words may not have been the best, I totally understand the mindset she was in at the moment. Incidents like that are scary and do not help create warm-fuzzy feelings for other people of any stripe. But I'm glad this has promoted a healthy discussion. I don't really have anything more to add -- Siryn's comment pretty much nailed it. But thanks for holding this one up to the light.

     
  • At December 07, 2005 11:12 AM, Blogger roosh said…

    1. Women are easy, so therefore white girls are easy.
    2. Black guys are more direct and forward with their initial approach than white guys. I didn't have to have several black guy friends in college to see that.

     
  • At December 07, 2005 11:18 AM, Blogger cs said…

    Mr. Jinxy beat me to it, but unless Ron J is Black and you are Jewish, your examples aren't exceptions to the rule, since they fall outside the category you're describing.

     
  • At December 07, 2005 11:22 AM, Blogger DC Cookie said…

    You're right. They're not exceptions. They are just proof that other demographics can fit the same bill.

    Good call boys, I'll adjust.

     
  • At December 07, 2005 12:20 PM, Blogger Namaste said…

    Exceptional, Cookie!

    While I concede that my word choice was less than politically correct at the time, I decided to leave it as it is because the intent of the post was not racial stereotyping, but a description of the incident, replete with raw and explicit detail from my perspective. Honestly, if the guy had been a good looking, clean-cut white guy pulling a crazy move on me, I can tell you I would have responded the same way. All of those Oprah shows on "what to do if you are attacked" have become mantras in my mind. And from personal experience, I will assure you that acting crazier than your attacker is sometimes your best way of avoiding physical damage. At any rate, it was a vent, a rant, me shaking my fist (and my monkey) at the world...

    In the meantime, I'm glad that it generated such considerable thought and debate. There can be no change without pluralism of voice. Clearly, a number of things need to change in our society. Racism and sexism, it seems, make terrible bedfellows with violence. Thanks, Cookie and Ryan for keeping the ball rolling...

     
  • At December 07, 2005 1:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    When being threatened or harassed, the rules of political correctness do not apply.

    Stereotyping keeps us safe - when people look dangerous, it's because the fit the stereotype of a dangerous person. Not to say that a stereotype can be or should be based on color alone, but it can certainly be based on appearance. You may not be a thug, but you are wearing a thug's uniform. Black, white, or whatever.

     
  • At December 07, 2005 1:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Sorry but you guys are living in Fantasyland. Most stereotypes come into being because they are based on fact. You can cite exceptions but (for example) most Asians are, in fact, short. And black guys got their reps as being sexually aggressive for a reason. Do a search on "
    Bureau of Justice Statistics" to check out how black males lead the pack in all aggressive crimes. Or just follow this link: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/homtrnd.htm.
    It's fine to live in Fantasyland, but you put people in danger, because people get reputations for a reason. And also I'm not one of the people who think my "type" is excluded.
    But stats are different that mere stereotypes and Namaste was right in her original assertion. Sometimes prejudice can be justified. In fact, when it's based in reality it should be encouraged because it is probably an instinct designed to keep us safe.
    Have fun clapping yourselves on the back for being so "liberated" -- why not put your money where your mouth is and raise your kids in the projects? Phony liberals!

     
  • At December 07, 2005 1:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Yeah, but your minds have been conditioned to believe that crap. Statistics show that your more than likely gonna be attacked by someone you know or someone of your ethncity. Plus it doesn't help that for some people the only contact they have with another group is through the evening news--and don't get me started on how they portray AA's or Arab Muslims because never positive. Its just like how everyone assumes AA's are on welfare yet statistics show 70 percent of welfare recipients are white.

     
  • At December 07, 2005 1:59 PM, Blogger Lucy said…

    I have nothing to add on the stereotyping end of the discussion, but I LOVE Namaste's technique for handling harrassment, and will definitely remember to use it.

     
  • At December 07, 2005 2:04 PM, Blogger PseudoIntellect said…

    Sterotypes do exist for a reason; they are based on facts. You can call them predispositions or tendencies if that makes you feel better, but there usually is merit to the root of the belief (no matter how out of whack it is). I am not condoning judgement based on stereotypes. I am not saying that stereotypes are good. But, no one can deny that mostly they are based on specified behavior or appearances by a particular group of people.

    Now, before everyone goes ape shit here, there are many stereotypes that are based solely on ignorance. I am simply crediting everyone here with the intelligence to know the difference.

    Black people are good athletes. Look at the Olympic track team. Look at the NBA.

    White people can't dance. Go to a club.

    Asians are good at math. Look it up.

    Southerners are racist. Jim Crow.

    Yeah, for the life of me, I just can't imagine where anyone would come up with this craziness!

    Everyone stereotypes others, it is human nature. How we process facts and act is what separates rational people from people you read about in the news. For example, when a well dressed black man walks into a room everyone makes an assessment. Some think "there's a black guy", instantly drawn to race. Some might say "he looks successful" drawn to his clothing. But, nonehteless, everyone makes an assessment and that is based on personal bias. Personal bias' are fed by stereotypes. Whether they are obtained by social exposure, cultural awreness, personal experience, or education isn't the point. The point is: everyone does it. Right, wrong, or indifferent....it's like masterbating, everyone does it.

     
  • At December 07, 2005 2:08 PM, Blogger A Unique Alias said…

    Wahh, wahh, wahh. It's called a bell curve. Isn't this topic dead yet??

     
  • At December 07, 2005 2:32 PM, Blogger DC Cookie said…

    Thank you Zippy for being among the only people to point out the frustrating side of my post.

    The main point of my post was - who are we 'really' angry with? The people who do the stereotyping, or the people of that stereotyped demographic who perpetuate it and give the stereotypers grounds for their statement? It's up for debate...

    All individuals deserve to be judged individually. Period.

    Oh, and I'm starting to hate typing the word stereotype.

     
  • At December 07, 2005 2:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    dennyb - Most people in the projects wouldn't raise their kids there if they could, so what is your point?

    Yes it is human nature to stereotype and yes many of the stereotypes are based in facts, but it's when we let those stereotypes drive and inhibit our everyday interactions with others that the stereotypes become a bad thing and shift toward racism/sexism/etc. Sure, one can assume anything about someone, but if that person refuses to interact with the other based solely on said assumption, in my opinion, that is a bad thing. Honestly, Namaste post would have been funny with or without the reference to the guy's race. Stereotypes can only be as important as we/society chooses to make them.

     
  • At December 07, 2005 4:06 PM, Blogger PseudoIntellect said…

    It's Bush's fault.

    He doesn't like black people.

     
  • At December 07, 2005 6:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Cookie, great post.
    Stereotyping is sad. Making assumptions about people because it is "time-saving" must be the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
    I have been the victim of stereotyping my whole life. It's pathetic. If those people judging others would take a moment and talk to the person they are stereotyping or give them the benefit than the world would be much more harmonious. But noooo...some people would rather assume than know the truth.

     
  • At December 07, 2005 8:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Zippy Luther King, I would love to see where you found that "statistics show 70 percent of welfare recipients are white." Unfortunately I have found information very much to the contrary and would be grateful for the enlightenment. I would especially appreciate information from credible sources such as: the US Department of Health and Human Services, Office of Family Assistance. Nothing personal, I just can't stand when people try to pass off misinformation as fact...Also, I like how you assert that "Its just like how EVERYONE [emphasis added] assumes AA's are on welfare." I guess I'm not "everyone" because I don't assume that. I also try not to make too many blanket statements, either. By the way, aren't blanket statements one of the most primitive forms of stereotyping, anyway?

     
  • At December 08, 2005 1:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Dear Anonymous
    Brah, i'm tired and not interested in debating welfare statistics on a rant blog comment section. You either live in dc or were educated in dc. I can hear the elistist educated voice croaking already. The fact remains Whites lead on welfare rolls depending on the economy at the time on avg between 60-70 percent. Prove me wrong, do what you must. I'm tired, i'm going to bed.

    Goodnight Cookie-- Goodnight Everybody.

     
  • At December 08, 2005 1:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Its interesting that you people who probably consider yourself smart or enlightened never thought about the fact that it probably has more to do with the socio-economic implications than anything else. In additon, any educated male, let alone any educated AA male would not have done/said anything like that. Do you think this outburst would have occurred in, let's say, the "upstanding" areas of Falls Church, Mclean, Great Falls, or Tyson's Corner? Of course not. However, if I understand it correctly, it happened in Charlottesville, VA at a DMV. If I'm not mistaken, the DMV in Charlottesville is in Pan Tops...yeah thats right, Pan Tops Mountain. How do I know? I went to UVA, too, big deal. Pantops is, for lack of a better word, trashy. The guy just happened to be black. It could have just as easily been a man of any other race. Was the fact that the guy was black even a necessary adjective in her story? Someone mentioned the story would have been funny on its own. This shows the authors OBVIOUS innate fear/dislike/whatever you want to call it for AA men. If this is not the case, then then the part about him being black could have been omitted, bottom line. I guess you all didn't think about that because you were too busy enjoying your wine and cheese. Gosh, I love dumb "smart" people. Laughable.

     
  • At December 08, 2005 10:11 AM, Blogger Reya Mellicker said…

    What a procative post and great discussion. I'm always interested in what people in DC have to say about racism, always.

    As a white person, I believe I have no right to assume what it's like to be African American. I don't know the experience, so I can only guess how my privileged status will shape my thoughts. It's like men talking about abortion as if they can truly understand what it's like to face a decision like that. They can be sympathetic, but they live outside the experience. We educated white people stand on the privileged side of racism. We can't really get a clear picture of the experience.

    It helps me, when I get confused about my status, to watch any movie made before 1960. If there are black people in the movie, the roles they play are always stereotyped, always. Even movies I love so much, with actors like Bette Davis, Kathryn Hepburn - even the Thin Man movies - depict black people so horrifically.

    The Civil Rights movement brought some changes, but racism is still very firmly rooted in our culture.

    Thank you so much for this conversation, DC Cookie.

     
  • At December 08, 2005 11:28 AM, Blogger PseudoIntellect said…

    I find it extraordinarily humorous when social and racial issues get so blurred. The obvious attempt to hide emotion and spew rhetoric is so clear. It is no better than white people proclaiming their sympathy for blacks because that allows them feel good about themselves. As long as certain groups apologize for themselves or separate themselves, the divide will not narrow. As long as the government continues to give us convenient labels for ourselves, we will never all just be "Americans".

    What do you call a white person from South Africa?

    South African.

    What do you call a black person from South Africa?

    South African.

    We are a nation divided and it goes from our self-imposed labels to having one un-inforced "official" language. I know the poor, tired, huddled masses routine, but become American if you want to live in America and don't try turn part of it into your native land. It's not your native land! That's the f'ing point!!! There's a reasone you left, remember? You're not in Kansas anymore Toto.

     
  • At December 08, 2005 11:44 AM, Blogger DC Cookie said…

    What about Canadians living in America who want to remain Canadian?

     
  • At December 08, 2005 2:29 PM, Blogger PseudoIntellect said…

    I don't think anyone in America actually looks at Canadians as "foreign". I am from Northern Ohio, about 1 1/2 hours from Windsor, Ontario, and it's pretty much just like America. And our vending machines in Toledo took Canadian quarters too! Nonetheless, I think that, unless you're from French-speaking Canada, Americans will generally see you as being pretty much just like us...eh?

    What I am referring to are the people that do not want to adapt to America, but want America to adapt to them. Simply stated, it strikes me as unfair to Americans. If you are a non-German speaking person and go to the German version of our DMV to get a drivers license, I guarantee you the test will be given in ONE language. German.

    I believe there is a difference in being proud of where you "came from" and being proud of where you are.

     
  • At November 26, 2006 8:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

Post a Comment

<< Home

 
free webpage counters